fee or free?

topic posted Sat, April 19, 2008 - 11:47 AM by  Taaj
So what do you all think about the idea of paying for qigong? I am coming across opinions that it is free. It doesn't cost anything to do. It's helpful. It should be shared and therefore should be given away.

Now, I do believe that everyone can benefit. It's healthy and should be shared. I show people a move or two, but I don't consider myself a teacher, nor would I hang a shingle and say, "Hey come learn from me because I've got this great stuff to share."

But part of that attitude comes from being in a profession (dance) where a lot of people give away classes and it dilutes the income and respect for those of us who are professionals, have rent to pay, and intend to make a living from our craft. I also think that there is a big difference between learning a couple of moves and learning things that someone has spent a lifetime cultivating. I think mastery should be rewarded and you should respect and appreciation for knowledge by paying for it.

So what do you all think? Should qigong be this free enterprise available to all, or should it be something that is respect and paid for? Or something in between?

Taaj
posted by:
Taaj
Virginia
  • Re: fee or free?

    Sun, April 20, 2008 - 7:22 AM
    My thoughts are if someone is a International Qigong Master and has experience to share then sure he or she should charge a reasonable fee. Remember, they have bills too. If someone isn't as qualified then perhaps they can offer a free workshop then perhaps a reasonable fee.
  • Re: fee or free?

    Mon, April 21, 2008 - 9:26 PM
    It is kind of hard to reconcile in our capitalist society... it's so healing, and yet... how can one afford to continue to eat healthy and study qigong if one just gives away what one has paid much money and time to cultivate (at least that's my position)?

    I like the legendary monetary system i heard about chinese medicine, where the patients would pay while they were well, but would recieve treatment for free if sick... now this is sometimes interpreted to be a reflection on the doctors skill - that if they want to get paid they should keep their patients healthy, but I also think it's a way to deal with things like qigong. If a person is sick and can benefit, i'll teach them whatever I can, if they are well and can afford it then they have to pay for my time and education... it's what I've come to think of as fair and as karmicly meritorious for all parties involved.
    • Re: fee or free?

      Thu, April 24, 2008 - 4:07 PM
      Fee.

      My time is valuable, so I charge for my time.

      There's also a psychological componant to it. If you pay, then you want to get your moneys worth, so most people typically try harder.

      If I offer my teaching for free, then how many people would take me seriously?

      Answer: Not too many.

      Why? Because the mentality is that if I offer something for free then it can't have any/too much value.

      You CAN get teaching for FREE.

      But, watch out!

      You might get more than what you bargain for...

      Come to think of it, even when you pay same thing applies!

      So, do your reseacrch before you attempt to learn from ANY "teacher" or "master."
  • Ren
    Ren
    offline 2

    Re: fee or free?

    Wed, April 30, 2008 - 9:39 PM
    I'm of the opinion that you have to choose where you are focusing your energy. If you're interested in material things, then you focus your energy on that, and you can manifest external results. If you're interested in developing inner power, you focus your energy on that, and that's what you'll get. All of the best qi gong experts I know live lives that are the equivalent of a taking a vow of poverty. They, and I include myself in this list., just don't have the time to waste making and spending money, when there's so much internal cultivation to do. Once you examine what you actually need, it's not much. It's almost nothing. I think teaching should be given away for free, or at least on a gift basis. You're not teaching for the money, or you're missing the point, so why bring the money into it to muddy your own intentions? Doing actual healing work may be another matter. A massage, for instance, deserves reasonable compensation. All this being said, I will say that I manage to make a bare bones living as a practitioner of Qi Gong in terms of raw income, but in terms of lifestyle I live pretty good. I eat only organic food, never want for clothes or warmth, and keep a roof over my baby's head. Because I give the people that work with me hundreds of hours of instruction at basically no charge, I never have a problem simply asking any of them a favor if I ever need it, and I've never been turned down. I can't afford a car, but I have plenty of students who have a car who would let me use it at a moment's notice, for instance. Food just comes my way without me even having to look for it. I've never been hard up for a place to sleep, someone's always got at least a couch or a backyard for me, and usually I can find pretty sweet deals on rooms or apartments. Not only that, but my skills and training translate superbly to any of a number of actually marketable skills. I can do any form of physical labor you can imagine, and do it for hours and hours, and not exert any effort. It's just a part of my Qi Gong training, at this point. My skills at concentration allow me to focus on any task that needs doing. I make an excellent watchman, because I can sit perfectly still for hours without getting bored. In a pinch, I've even made what I need going down to a popular part of town, spraypainting myself grey and standing still like a statue for hours for tips. I don't charge for teaching, but I have a free pass to most of the festivals I want to go to, I just exchange teaching for a pass. There's an argument that you have to charge for people to think it's worthwhile. I don't agree. People get massive value out of going to Church, and I've never been to a church that charged admission. If what you have to teach is worthwhile, the right people will appreciate it, and what are you wasting your time with the rest for anyway? These skills are not for everyone, only the ones that value them enough to put the effort in, and are wise enough to recognize what's real. The list of creative ways I have made a living as a Qi Gong practitioner while not actually having to sully my integrity by charging for instruction goes on and on. I'm convinced you don't have to charge for your art to make a living with it, and those who think they do are either greedy, lazy, or just not creative enough to be called a real master.
    • Re: fee or free?

      Thu, May 1, 2008 - 3:37 AM
      Wow. I must be greedy because I charge for dancing and for providing therapy. I believe that the universe is abundant and there is enough for everyone. What we claim for ourselves or allow ourselves to have is what we manifest in the physical plane. So if we feel that we must take a vow of poverty in order to be perceived as "good" or "humble" or whatever, that's what we get. If we believe that all life is full of abundance and there is enough for everyone, that's what we get.

      Anyway, that said, that's my reason for being conflicted about the whole thing. I thnk energy is abundant and having the knowledge of using it for wholeness IS something that should be shared for healing, but if someone doesn't want to invest (meaning money, time and effort), might giving it away be a waste of time anyway? I was in an energy healing workshop this past weekend where a lot of wonderful things happened. The workshop was expensive, so everyone got what they paid for, but at the same time, had someone who was ill been excluded due to finances, that would have been a shame.

      Taaj
      • Ren
        Ren
        offline 2

        Re: fee or free?

        Thu, May 1, 2008 - 11:02 AM
        dance is a different story, it's a luxury good. it's fair to charge for it. Qi Gong is a spiritual thing, and somewhat different. Not that dance can't be spiritual, but it is by it's nature a luxury, a form of entertainment, something to enhance beauty and self image. Qi Gong is the opposite of all that.

        And unfortunately, as much as I wish what you said was true about there being enough for everyone, it's not the case. I mean, it is the case, if we all live radically simple lives. There are simply not enough resources on the planet for everyone to live a life of luxury. For those who own a car, the only way you can own that car is because someone else is starving to death. It's a simple matter of resource allotment. You are totally right that what we claim or manifest for ourselves is what we get, and we get it at the expense of those who don't have the ability to claim their own fair share. There's still alot of abundance, but the abundance is in the form of love, sunshine, laughter, and other things that have no pricetag. Pretty much for anything you can buy, there is not enough of it. That's why there's a pricetag on it, right at the intersection of supply and demand, concepts that by their nature imply that there is not, infact, an abundance of whatever particular resource is in question.
        As to those people that can't go to workshops and other expensive healing situations because of money, it has to be remembered that those are most people. Honestly, about 90 percent of the people I work with could never pay. The single most important thing you can do, statistically speaking, to extend your lifespan is have high income. It's more important than quiting smoking. And that's sad. You wonder why rich 45 year olds are healthy and attractive, and poor ones are losing their teeth and ugly, (as a whole), its simply because of this attitude we have that somehow you should have to pay for heathgiving activities, and when the choice is food and rent or an expensive energy workshop, no one choses the workshop. If you wonder how many people got excluded from your workshop, take a look at how many people were involved who made less than 12000 a year and had 2 kids. I'm betting none. Not because they might not have wanted to go, just because they couldn't afford it.
        I don't think heathcare is a luxury of the rich. I think it's a natural human right, and that's why I teach for free, and can't support anyone who would charge for it. It's my duty to society to give what I have away, and I think what makes a person worthwhile is not how much they think about how they can get what they want, but how much energy they put into making the world a better place for those around them.
        • Re: fee or free?

          Thu, May 1, 2008 - 1:31 PM
          Charging for the work isn't about making money - I don't know too many teachers of the healing or movement arts who are getting rich. It's about the recipient investing in something, anything, to create a better situation for themselves. It's all about energy exchange. The fees don't have to be paid in dollars, although money is an acceptable form of energy. You could have people perform whatever service(s) they're good at in exchange for teaching them techniques and methods that they can use to improve their health; what you give them they can use for the rest of their lives. If you simply hand it to them, 9 out of 10 people won't do anything with the treasures that are being offered, because they haven’t actually invested anything in order to receive them.

          You can choose to be altruistic and give everything away out of the goodness of your heart, but don’t believe that taking $10.00 for an hour class is somehow going to disrupt the balance on the planet and cause someone to starve. If you’re that concerned about it, take the money and then donate it to a worthy cause. That will ultimately bring about more good than teaching people without letting them give something back.
        • Re: fee or free?

          Thu, May 1, 2008 - 2:11 PM
          Hi Ren:

          Thanks for your post. I truly enjoyed your perspective.

          I would like to remind those interested in Qi Gong the essence of the word Gong.

          In the sense of Qi Gong as a spiritual practice, Gong is work that fulfills itself through the act of doing of it.

          To miss this subtle meaning is truly to rob oneself of the unique contribution Qi Gong has truly made to the authentic spiritual community of the world.

          Qi Gong Grand Masters in China do one thing and one thing only, from the moment they wake up until the moment they go to bed: Qi Gong. They are too busy "working energy" to do anything else ( like charge money for healing, or watch movies, or complain about what neighbors are doing ), and the working the energy is sufficent unto itself, in and of itself; nothing else is required. Ever.

          There is a rare healing clay that has some fantastic Qi. It is from France; a richly green French Illite. I'm secretly glad that not everyone knows about it, because there is not enough of it FOR everyone in the world. There is no replacement, or substitute. Swirling lights in one's head in meditation is never going to change that reality. The crystal and the natural energy is far too complex to be created in a lab; it would be easier to clone humans.

          The American New Age community has brainwashed themselves regarding abundance. It is undoubtly the fear associated with "not having" or "not getting" that has caused this.

          I would ask that one realize that the fact that we use money as an exchange MEANS that our economic system is designed to compete for limited resources ( and we even make sure that the resources ARE LIMITED to maintain market value ). If we lived with true abundance, we would not need money as an exchange unit. We'll get there, but it's going to take a while.

          This doesn't have anything to do with "lack of prosperity" or taking a vow of poverty; it only has to do with aligning oneself with the REALITY of circumstances as they actually are, rather the CONVENIENCE of ego belief.

          Right now, I can afford to give away between 3 and 8 hours a day of Gong. What I endevour to do, is not figure out how to get more "Qi" but how to work Qi stronger... In other words, I endevour to figure out how to give away 12 hours of Gong a day, if it is needed.

          When one understands the ideology, one realizes that there is absolutely no sacrifice at all. I'm not even talking about sacrificing prosperity. ALL OF US should be living in PROSPERITY!

          I'm talking about truly looking at CREATING value.... Rather than COMPETING for resources.

          That said, I don't think that people who charge for Qi Gong classes or Qi Gong treatment are "bad" or "wrong"... I don't think less of them, nor do I think they should be shamed, and I don't even believe that they are creating karma.

          I'd enjoy hearing more about YOUR Qi Gong practice, Ren!

          ~Jason
  • Re: fee or free?

    Fri, May 30, 2008 - 1:05 AM
    Selling the teachings is always bad. But I do think that full time instructors should make a living.
    Most centers don't work like churches here and temples in the east.So, it is often pay as you go. Which is a shame. It is pragmatic, but it just demonstrates our situation. Best if some wealthy donor or donors can foot the main bill and the rest be by contribution. It is good to give to the temple, good for full time instructors to make a living. There is another form of capitalist in the west, and that is the get something for free capitalist, who is convinced he or she is not a capitalist, just because they aren't affluent. They will preach that things should be free, but they just want free things.
    Then, there are people who are just broke, can't afford the teachings. For an interested individual to not receive the teachings is worst of all. If someone is humble and says they are just broke, then they should receive the teachings. Lots of larger centers have work exchange, sliding scales and ways to work it out. A little experience with people will allow one to discriminate who is just broke and who is set upon receiving things for free.
    What is said of exchange of energy is oversimplified, I think. Myself, if I give, I give. I think I am happier if someone passes the energy along instead of giving me back what I gave, unless there is some specific agreement, in which case I am selling or trading, not giving
    Modern Western spirituality has a way of using dodgy new-age speak when dealing with this sort of thing. It may just be the pragmatic solution, but the pay as you go system just seems like selling teachings.
    It could best be alleviated by wealthy donors, who just cover the teachers salary and costs of the center, under the condition that the teachings are free or by voluntary donation.
    • Ren
      Ren
      offline 2

      Re: fee or free?

      Fri, May 30, 2008 - 8:16 PM
      such an excellent solution to the problem...let those who can afford it foot the bill. now we just need to convince them of that. off course there's another way to make it happen...hit up the biggest big man of all, the government. Bring these skills to the level of public awareness that it's recognized as a public good to have excellent teachers and facilities around. It's a healthcare issue, after all.
      • Re: fee or free?

        Mon, June 2, 2008 - 5:30 AM
        I believe that change starts with the people, not the government, so for people who feel that qigong should be free and part of nationalize health care, why not be the one who implements it in your area?

        I don't think the answer to my original question has to be black and white. Professionals can and should be paid for what they do, but that doesn't mean that it can't be accessible to those who can't afford it. The wellness qigong that most people do in China is not the same service you get from TCM doctor's after all.

        So what I am saying is, "the biggest man of all" doesn't even have to be involved. If you believe it should be free and accessible, give it away. I think that actually increases business for those who are professionals because it creates a demand for greater skill and knowledge of the professionals.

        Taaj
        • Re: fee or free?

          Mon, June 2, 2008 - 8:28 AM
          Having the government pay, is very different from free. It really means that we are all paying, so that we can all take part...such as paying for roads and schools.

          The basics of Qi Gong is very simple. If you just want to learn the basics, so that you can have your own practice, it is easy and affordable to take a few classes or get a book, even from the library and implement your own daily practice. This will do most people a great deal of good. If you want continued instruction from someone who has devoted their own time, energy and resources to this, or possibly a group atmosphere that increases the healing field but may require the use of a space which costs money to maintain or rent then one should pay, as this is the nature of the world we live in. Much of the knowledge of chi gung is already available for free in our information rich society.
  • Re: fee or free?

    Tue, June 17, 2008 - 9:31 AM
    I think it's a great question. The way I see it, you pay for the teaching once, then it's free for you to use the rest of your life. So I don't see anything wrong with paying someone to learn something you'll have for the rest of your life.

    Qigong is one of the few that doesn't inheritly develop repeat customers. I have paid a good amount for my teachings at different places, but now I have those teachings for the rest of my life. Think about how much other people spend on other non-effective methods of stress release and healing?

    So I would say the energy is free, but someone's time to show you how to manipulate the energy is not.

    But it's always your choice. If you choose to pay someone for a teaching you think will seriously benefit your life, what's the problem?

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